Trouble with WDM Realtek digital output

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CaptaPraelium
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:31 am

Trouble with WDM Realtek digital output

Postby CaptaPraelium » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:24 am

Hi Vincent,

Thankyou for your help erlier today. I have a problem with Voicemeeter Banana, I hope you can help.

Everything works OK if I use the MME driver for my soundcard. But the latency is too high for gaming. I have a powerful PC (6 core i7 CPU, 16GB RAM) so I wanted to try a smaller buffer. Sadly, when I use the WDM interface which allows the small buffers, I get a strange audio distortion. I notice the buffer size is correct, unless I set it to 1024 or less - then, the settings show me that it is using a buffer of 1056. It seems as though it will not go below 1056 on any setting. Even on settings above this (1536/2048), the distortion is still present.

This is only the case when I am using the 5.1 Dolby Digital output of my sound card. If I use the same card, the same optical output, but in stereo mode, there is no distortion.

I have attached screenshots of my settings, I hope this helps. In the screenshot, it shows internal SR 44k1, but I have tried with 48k also and the behaviour is the same.

voicemeeter2.png
voicemeeter2.png (95.33 KiB) Viewed 6217 times

Vincent Burel
Site Admin
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:01 pm

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby Vincent Burel » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:28 am

1- you may set the Engine Mode in NORMAL (swift remain experimental and does not work well with shared audio device).
2- your Realtek Digital output is used in SHARED mode (S) that's why buffer is given by the device itseld and not the preferred one

if configured in 5.1 DTS i'm not sure this device can work in exclusvie mode in fact...

what i recommend is to connect output A1 to a regular audio device that can work in exclusive mode with right buffer size (512 sample for WDM)... and connect your Optical device on output A2 (with WDM or MME)...

output A1 in Voicemeeter is giving the main master audio stream and must be connected to your best, most reliable, most stable audio output device...

CaptaPraelium
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:31 am

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby CaptaPraelium » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:35 am

Thanks for the advice :)

This screenshot is one of many configurations which I attempted, but the same behaviour is seen in normal mode and swift mode.

I tried to use my only other sound card, which is the HDMI audio to my TV, as A1, then, my optical output as A2.

Behaviour is the same as above - distortion throguh the WDM interface, MME has no distortion but high latency.

I have confirmed that no other apps are using the sound card. Not sure why it is in shared mode.

CaptaPraelium
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:31 am

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby CaptaPraelium » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:43 pm

Is there anything else I can do, or is it time for me to give up?

It's a shame, I'm used to linux's excellent audio system (jack2) and voicemeeter was my only hope to get some basic audio routing in windows.

I guess I have zero hope in doing something like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaumI8dz4Ag

Vincent Burel
Site Admin
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:01 pm

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby Vincent Burel » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:14 am

CaptaPraelium wrote:Is there anything else I can do, or is it time for me to give up?


i did not see it before but you can set WDM buffering to default value = 512 (or check if 256 works stable).
128 samples is often too small for most of WDM audio device.

Anyway , we are going to make extra checking on WDM Share mode management...

I guess I have zero hope in doing something like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaumI8dz4Ag


I don't know, Will ask to Chuck...

qrq
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:33 pm

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby qrq » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:57 pm

I suggest 2 things to try, if you can not get VMB to use lower buffer frames to achieve lowest possible latency on your desired sound card....

1. try using REAPER and its EXCLUSIVE MODE with your chosen soundcard. If that works with your chosen sound card hardware inputs/outputs...at a latency low enough for your audio setup demands, then you may be able to use VMB to bring in some of its own virtual and hardware inputs too, by selecting REAPER's own ASIO DRIVER, the REAROUTE ASIO DRIVER for the VMB A1 OUTPUT asio device. You can select for the VMB A1 OUTPUT, the REAROUTE ASIO DRIVER, and then toggle COMPOSITE MODE for the A1 OUTPUT channel. Rearoute's asio input channels will then be divided from ie... 3,4 / 5,6 / 7,8 / 9,10 for up to 4 stereo inputs directed to REAPER's input tracks.(this is not meant to be a REAPER TUTORIAL, just a possible solution to your soundcard low latency needs) You select which pins go where on the VMB PATCH COMPOSITE to determine which of the VMB Inputs channels go with the rearoute asio driver input channel numbers...

2. try using JackRouter as the your main audio system. If you can get JackRouter at a low enough latency to do your audio work, you can select again in VMB A1 asio output device..."JackRouter" and then 8 of the 10 input pins of VMB will show up inside JackRouter so you can wire those additional hardware and virtual inputs from VMB through JackRouter to your soundcard output or any other "jack/asio aware" audio app's input pins. You select which inputs to which pins go where once again on the VMB PATCH COMPOSITE to determine which of the 8 pins go inside JackRouter.

CaptaPraelium
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:31 am

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby CaptaPraelium » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:16 pm

Vincent Burel wrote:i did not see it before but you can set WDM buffering to default value = 512 (or check if 256 works stable).
128 samples is often too small for most of WDM audio device.


I tried with all buffer sizes and had that behaviour mentioned before - Distortion with any buffer size, and buffer size is always >=1056b :(
That screenshot is just one. I tried every setting available and of course I started with the defaults :)

Anyway , we are going to make extra checking on WDM Share mode management...

I don't know, Will ask to Chuck...


Thanks man :)

qrq wrote:I suggest 2 things to try,
[/quote]
Ahh, so if I understand correctly, your idea is to use reaper or Jack as a kind of 'wrapper' for the soundcard? That's a clever thought :) I'll try this. I had given up on jack because it needed asio sources but... VMB is one! hah, you're crafty :D

Thanks guys! I'll let you know how that goes.

CaptaPraelium
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:31 am

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby CaptaPraelium » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:25 pm

Well, this was interesting! I had no idea that JACK worked so well on Windows. Even QJACKCtl works, and my favourite router, catia! Thanks for that tip!

I have the server running, and it works with buffers at 512, or 256 or 128 (didn't try any others yet as these should all be fine). I got jackrouter running with 6 channels of audio (BTW, it uses the 32bit config file, not the 64bit), it all seems pretty good. Reaper plays into jackrouter just fine. No xruns, distortion, etc, with jack server buffers at 128.

Now, I just need to get a good bridge from various WDM apps (games, browser, skype, teamspeak, OBS, desktop, etc), to/from the JACK server... And it would be perfect! I'm so close!


But I tried using voicemeeter and also the asio bridge, with the same results. Lots of latency, and if I reduce buffer sizes, I get distortion :(
PS I also tried 'Synchronous Audio router', but it needs ASIO4ALL for output, and that does not recognise the 6 outputs on my optical output, only stereo...

I have not stopped trying isnce my last post some hours ago. I think I might take a break and hope you guys have more tips for me :)
Thanks again.

tox
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby tox » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:54 pm

Hi,
I'd like to confirm that I also experience the same issues as CaptaPraelium.
I am also using the Realtek Digital Ouput, I'm using this on A2 with the focusrite ASIO on A1, however I experience the same issue no matter what configuration I try.
I have tried many different configuration changes.
Changing the buffer size just delays the time between stutters.
I am running Voicemeeeter Banana 2.0.3.1 on W10 x64

As MME - no stuttering
Vmeeter.PNG
Vmeeter.PNG (87.6 KiB) Viewed 6094 times


As WDM - much stuttering
Vmeeter_wdm.PNG
Vmeeter_wdm.PNG (85.62 KiB) Viewed 6094 times

Vincent Burel
Site Admin
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:01 pm

Re: Trouble with WDM output

Postby Vincent Burel » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:08 am

Just a question, when using WDM Realtek optical device, does it change something if you set the Engine mode to SWIFT ?


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