audio glitches and delay

[Rangoon]

I have a robust VoiceMeeter setup, utilizing Cables A, B, C, D, plus all the usuals. My outputs are:
1) WDM Sound Blaster X4
2) WDM Sound Blaster ZxR
3) WDM video card HDMI
4) MME Cable C
5) MME Cable D

I'm using 48Khz and 24 bit on everything. Buffers are:

MME: 1024
WDM: 256
KS: 512

Sample Rates on all of my cables are 7168

I am using 4 Buttkickers and a JetSeat for transducers, all coming from the ZxR. I am using the X4 for headphones and an AVR on HDMI. The main issues I have are some occasional audio glitching throughout and a roughly 200ms delay on the transducers. I am compensating for the delay by setting a delay on A1 and A3, though I would rather not have to if there is a way to reduce the delay on A2 (I notice that delay when playing games, even if it's slight). I am sending audio to A4 and A5 as a way of separating control over those levels. I use Cables C and D to route them into Inputs 4 and 5, then from there I send them to A2. I am using Cable B to receive physics telemetry data from flight sims, etc., then to A2. A2 is PATCH COMPOSITE. I use Cable A as a media input (Spotify, Chrome, etc.), but the delay doesn't seem affected whether it's Cable A or the system audio from Input 6. So I'm not sure if it's the cables causing the delay or something else. Maybe it's the MME on C and D? I have tried reducing the sample rates on all the cables, but that either does nothing or causes glitching. I have tried using WDM for the cables, but that causes severe glitching. I have tried reducing the MME buffer, but that causes glitching.

My system is Windows 11, i9-12900k, 64GB RAM.

Could someone please help me walk through this and understand what might be causing the delay and glitching, other things I might try, the connections between sample rates and buffers, etc.? I know that I'm sending somewhat glitchy audio to my transducers, too, because I sometimes check that signal by sending Inputs 4 or 5 to A1 and listen there on headphones to what I'm actually outputting to A2. A2 then applies an EQ and routes to various outputs on the ZxR. It would be great if I could clean that up with 100% confidence. I don't think my settings are very aggressive. The only thing that's not "approved" or default is the WDM buffer of 256. 512 doesn't seem to help. The audio going to the transducers is pretty good, but not perfect. Overall, the audio is good, almost perfect. So I'm trying to get 100% perfect but also reduce delay without introducing glitches.

Thanks for any help on this!

[Vincent Burel]

you may post a screenshot of your Voicemeeter system settings dialog box.

[Rangoon]

This is a basic setup that I use, though I sometimes use bus channels 5 and 6 in the patch composite, as well as A5 to route to Input 5, then A2.

[Rangoon]

Does anything in my configuration appear problematic? Is there any way to reduce the 200ms delay on A2 or is that amount of delay normal when using Cables C and D? Cables A and B don't seem to cause the delay inherently, so I'm assuming this is because I'm using Cables C and D as outputs. Is it simply that? Or is it because of the requirement to use MME vs WDM and the additional latency there?

[Rangoon]

Can anyone point out what would be causing the 200ms delay? Is it simply from the usage of or settings within Cable C/D? Or is there something else going on? I know it's somewhere prior to input 4, since when I send input 4 to A1 and A2, they come out in sync. Is that just a byproduct of using an output to an input then? Is that just something to expect and have to compensate for with the delay feature in the configuration?

Is it normal to not be able to use WDM for the cables? Is the delay just a factor of having to use MME for those? And does it seem normal to have to use the default or higher buffer for those with system specs like I have?

[Vincent Burel]

first remark: the usage of VB-CABLE C+D is not usual, since you create a loop between outputs and inputs (why?).

By using the SoundBlaster X4 device as output A1 , you define your Voicemeeter main stream in 48kHz with 256 samples buffer size.
This configuration is normally optimal and generate less than 10ms delay (2x buffer of 5ms).

but with your 180ms added in the Monitoring Synchro Delay , it makes around 200ms delay on output A1.
it seems you want to compensate the delay of the output A2 (Transducer) that seems to have an incredible delay out of Voicemeeter.

you may come on our Discord server to find someone with a similar configuration maybe...

[Rangoon]

The reason I'm using Cable C and D in this way is so that I can have discreet level control over the audio going to my transducers. In 4 is sent to A2 (bus 3/4) output to buttkickers and In 5 is sent to A2 (bus 5/6) output to the seat cover. I want them separated from each other and from the volume level going to the speakers (since I change that from time to time but under difference circumstances as the level going to the transducers).

Is it technically a loop (sincere question)? I mean so is it a loop in a technically faulty way that is causing the delay? It's not generating any feedback, for example.

Thank you!

EDIT: I should also clarify that the other important reason I'm sending A4 and A5 back to In 4 and In 5 is that I need to be able to send them out specific channels of the ZxR card. I send In 3 (physics telemetry data from sims) to Front L/R, In 4 (audio) goes to C/Sub, and In 5 goes to Rear L/R. In theory, I could use LFE Only mode to send Sub audio to a L/R, but I don't see a way to build that into my VM configuration and still maintain discreet outputs that I get from the Patch Composite I'm using on A2 now. Is there a better way to accomplish this? That may reduce the delay. I just don't see a way.

[Vincent Burel]

yes such loop is usually not the way to go and can generate a lot of latency of course.

if you need to use several/specific audio channel of your SoundBlaster ZxR , you may consider using it as main device (output A1) with its ASIO driver if any, then you will be able to route other output bus to it in more flexible way as it is explained in this video tutorial: https://youtu.be/35N8hkOy8h4