Output delay

[ESCPROBUS]

I created a fairly simple setup in Banana to take multiple microphone inputs and output the signal to headphones, an amplified speaker system (for a meeting hall) and to Zoom (for remote meeting participants). Everything works OK except there is a noticeable delay between input and output that is causing a huge problem for the person speaking as they hear an "echo" of themselves. I have tried all the recommendations I could find online (reducing buffers, etc.) and various hardware changes (different laptop, wired microphone instead of wireless, etc.) with minimal success. The system is still unusable due to the output delay, even with a single microphone input and single output to an amplified speaker. I am using a new Dell Inspiron 16 Plus laptop with Windows 11, I7-11800H and 16GB RAM so processing shouldn't be an issue. Here's my current settings. Any suggestions are welcome!

[ESCPROBUS]

Should mention that I suspected an issue with Windows 11 and drivers so replicated the setup on a Dell XPS13 (I7, 16GB) running Windows 10 but the problem was the same.

[Vincent Burel]

first you may use the last Voicemeeter Banana version (2.0.6.2).

and the echo can come from only 2 different problems (not in relation with latency).

1- you get an echo because you made a loopback somewhere, sending a source back to him (see BUS assignation button).
2- you get an echos because a MIC is capturing the Speaker and then possibly creating a loopback.

[ESCPROBUS]

Hi Vincent, thanks for responding.

I incorrectly used the term "echo" to describe the user's experience when speaking into the microphone and hearing themselves from the amplified speaker with a noticeable delay. The sound doesn't repeat (echo), it is just delayed significantly (latency in the system).

I updated to 2.0.6.2, which forced me to reset WDM buffering to 256 and disabled Engine Mode and WDM Input Exclusive Mode settings so now the problem is worse. Why are those disabled?

I also ran Dell app to update all drivers and reset all inputs and outputs to 16 bit, 48kHz but the problem still exists.

What else can I try?

[ESCPROBUS]

Any ideas?? Will soon need to abandon Banana and look for an alternative...

[stoepie]

Get a low latency audio interface. I doubt the delay is in VM, especially with your low buffer settings.

I use a Behringer XR-18 Air over ASIO and there is just in the order of milliseconds round trip delay per routing. I can loop to and from 3 times (VM->XR->VM->XR-VM->XR, using buses and stereo out) and still latency/delay is no issue. Definately not an issue where you talk and then interrupt yourself - which I take is your issue.

Try to find if your microphones (wireless to USB?) are causing the delay issue, or if it's the output device.

If I google Samson wireless mics I see a S**tload of issues with latency.

[Vincent Burel]

Any ideas?? Will soon need to abandon Banana and look for an alternative...

first of all, you have a terribly old version of Voicemeeter, so you may first update to latest version.

[ESCPROBUS]

See above msg from Sept 11:
I updated to 2.0.6.2, which forced me to reset WDM buffering to 256 and disabled Engine Mode and WDM Input Exclusive Mode settings so now the problem is worse. I also ran Dell app to update all drivers and reset all inputs and outputs to 16 bit, 48kHz but the problem still exists.

[ESCPROBUS]

Don't think it's the microphone setup. I can plug the mic's receiver directly into the Samson speaker system's USB input and there is no latency. But if I plug it into the laptop running Banana and connect the laptop's analog output to the Samson speaker there is latency.

[Vincent Burel]

of course there is latency with your computer, your MIC audio must be converted in digital domain to enter in the computer (this operation takes at least 1ms), be managed by the operating system, transmitted to voicemeeter through an audio interface, then processed in Voiceemeter, synchronized with other stream and sent to output device, again through Windows audio system and driver pipe... All this audio path generate latency, but this might be optimized.

first you must have good buffer size on voicemeeter main stream: output A1 device buffer size could be around 256 samples.
then you can reactivate the SWIFT MODE and INPUT EXCLUSIVE by tweaking the registry if needed, see last page of the user manual.

but normally with 256 sample buffer size on mic and output device, you may have less than 20ms global latency. if you have more, (e.g. 50 or 100ms), it means another process, or a bad driver or windows system is adding latency.