Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

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Vincent Burel
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Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby Vincent Burel » Fri May 22, 2020 8:57 am

sounds like you have several problems (muffled sound usually means a bad default audio format in windows recording device advanced tab).

for the rest, i don't understand how a BUS can come back to a MIC input ... execpt if you have some specical Windows option (e.g. LISTEN option) or if you have a mess in your driver installation : check this thread too: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=688

to get more help, just post a screenshot of Voicemeeter and its system settings dialog box... explain what is wrong on it.

PLEASE EVERYBODY: avoid long text, stay clear and simple, stay focus on one issue at a time.

newbieTrying34
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby newbieTrying34 » Sun May 24, 2020 5:30 pm

Thank you for getting back to me Vincent.

Vincent Burel wrote:sounds like you have several problems (muffled sound usually means a bad default audio format in windows recording device advanced tab).

Download this video and switch to audio track 2 which has the mic recording. The mic recording is not muffled, the feedback audio being sent to the mic is muffled.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18BMihL ... sp=sharing

Vincent Burel wrote:for the rest, i don't understand how a BUS can come back to a MIC input ... execpt if you have some specical Windows option (e.g. LISTEN option) or if you have a mess in your driver installation : check this thread too: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=688

Here are all my Windows Sounds settings: https://imgur.com/a/WMH49fx
My installed drivers: https://i.imgur.com/FTOuNWs.png
Mic input is never set to listen anywhere

Vincent Burel wrote:to get more help, just post a screenshot of Voicemeeter and its system settings dialog box... explain what is wrong on it.

Voicemeeter: https://i.imgur.com/uNCwX2i.png
Voicemeeter Settings: https://i.imgur.com/dm5iPaq.png

Steps to create the issue:
1. Select any of the VAIOs as system sounds output
2. Start Voicemeeter or restart the audio engine
3. Issue occurs and all output now goes to mic as input

Issue occurs even when mic is NOT configured in Voicemeeter, all output is fedback to the mic. Issue occurs even when mic is physically disconnected or never connected to the PC.

Steps to solve the issue:
1. Select Speakers as system sounds output
2. Start Voicemeeter or restart the audio engine
3. Everything works 100% fine

Without Voicemeeter audio engine running, the drivers are in Virtual Cable mode. When the audio engine starts they are in Virtual I/O mode.

I believe that when Voicemeeter audio engine starts there is something in your code that does not route the audio properly to the application itself. Or the code just doesn't play well with Realtek drivers.

I have already tried a lot of settings/changes that you'll find detailed in this thread.

I have looked around and there is nothing specific on this issue BUT I have found other users who have a Realtek card and have the same issue with Voicemeeter:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comment ... g_through/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comment ... _vb_audio/ (This is NOT an acoustic echo issue as I already mentioned it happens even when mic is physically muted/disconnected)

Here is another person on your forums having this exact issue (Jan 2020):
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=916&p=2995&hilit=echo&sid=4ed70b212c466ce772c2fc19216cd8ef#p2995

Vincent Burel
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Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby Vincent Burel » Mon May 25, 2020 10:11 am

The device used as hardware input #1, seems to capture audio on air in fact ? no ?
with 10 to 20 dB less level than the VAIO input, it's sounds like this...

Anyway your VAIO windows device settings seem to be ok. (communication option are set to do nothing ?)

do you have specific settings dialog box for your realtek ? or specific system parameters regarding this microphone ?
like a "loopback" option or "stereo mix" feature for example... check also your playback device -> level tab in the properties dialog box.

otherwise what's happenning is your select the WDM interface as output A1 instead?

newbieTrying34
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby newbieTrying34 » Tue May 26, 2020 2:23 pm

Vincent Burel wrote:The device used as hardware input #1, seems to capture audio on air in fact ? no ?
with 10 to 20 dB less level than the VAIO input, it's sounds like this...

No it is not audio through air. Issue happens even if mic is not connected to the PC. Mic input becomes active when I recreate steps for the issue.

Vincent Burel wrote:Anyway your VAIO windows device settings seem to be ok. (communication option are set to do nothing ?)

Using B1 output (VAIO) as input to all communication applications. Mic is only input to Voicemeeter.

Vincent Burel wrote:do you have specific settings dialog box for your realtek ? or specific system parameters regarding this microphone ?
like a "loop back" option or "stereo mix" feature for example... check also your playback device -> level tab in the properties dialog box.

My Realtek control panel settings-
Mic: https://i.imgur.com/EG6qTKH.png
Speakers: https://i.imgur.com/wsrNd8u.png

I have enabled/disabled all settings but nothing helped.

Here is the levels screen for my mic but no special settings: https://i.imgur.com/QJZolKH.png

Vincent Burel wrote:otherwise what's happening is your select the WDM interface as output A1 instead?

With A1 set to WDM issue remains but my mic input has crackling so I use MME instead.

Like I said before I think in your code something is missed when VAIO is selected as system output and audio engine is started because that is the condition for creating this issue for me. Voicemeeter is switching Virtual Cable to Virtual I/O but forgets to remove the pass through/throughput.

Also do you have a development build with logging enabled? I would be happy to share log files.

xcasxcursex
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:04 am

Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby xcasxcursex » Wed May 27, 2020 8:02 am

newbieTrying34 wrote:Voicemeeter is switching Virtual Cable to Virtual I/O but forgets to remove the pass through/throughput.


The audio is not coming from the cable, it's coming from your mic input. Everything sent to the speakers output is redirected there (with some distortion). Everything you have shown so far, demonstrates that your device is doing the distortion and redirection of the audio.

Neither VM, the VAIO cables, windows settings nor either realtek or MS drivers, provide such functionality.

Of course it's hard to be certain why your PC does this, until you do the tests I've given you to isolate the cause.

newbieTrying34
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Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby newbieTrying34 » Wed May 27, 2020 4:37 pm

xcasxcursex wrote:The audio is not coming from the cable, it's coming from your mic input. Everything sent to the speakers output is redirected there (with some distortion). Everything you have shown so far, demonstrates that your device is doing the distortion and redirection of the audio.

No. Like I have demonstrated numerous times already, Voicemeeter audio engine is the cause. There is a reason I can replicate the problem 100% and fix it 100% by following the steps I mentioned. The issue occurs when audio engine starts with VAIO as the ouput. It does not occur when audio engine starts with speakers as output. If it was a mic issue issue, this would not be the case. As I have also mentioned numerous times by now, having the mic physically disconnected from the PC still produces the issue.

And to add to all this, having the mic disabled via Windows Sound Control, creating issue, enabling mic and adding it to Voicemeeter still shows this issue. Which is what I just tried.

So no, it's not the mic.

But I understand, it's easy to blame the user instead of figuring out or raising a concern despite not being the developer of a software.

xcasxcursex wrote:Of course it's hard to be certain why your PC does this, until you do the tests I've given you to isolate the cause.

Already did all the tests you have mentioned on page 3 of the thread.

xcasxcursex
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:04 am

Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby xcasxcursex » Wed May 27, 2020 8:13 pm

Just because VM TRIGGERS the problem does not imply it is the root CAUSE. It's important to understand the distinction here. As an analogy, think about a road with some nails on it. you drive down the road and you get a flat tire. Is that a tire problem? No, you just see the symptoms in the tires. Is is a car problem? No the car just triggers the tires to go flat. It's a nails on the road problem. Drive a different way, the trigger never happens. But the problem still exists, the nails are still there, you just have nothing to do with them. Drive down that road, and the problem is triggered and you see the symptom of the flat tire. Does that mean this is a problem with your route? No it's a problem with nails on the road. You will never find those nails, if you keep insisting and believing that the tires and the car and the road and the route taken. are to blame.

You've excluded the possibility that the audio is being routed by VM or the cable, in numerous ways. You've done it again with your latest test, by triggering the problem when the mic is disabled in software, and then enabling it afterwards and still seeing the symptoms. As with all your other tests so far, what you're showing is that when VM opens the device (and when I say the 'device' is routing the audio, I mean the sound card, not the microphone), the device begins to route a distorted copy of it's output back into the mic. The audio signal is not the virtual cable continuing to route it's input to it's output, as you said it was, because the audio that feeds back is not coming from the cable, it's coming from the mic input on your sound card (I didn't say the problem was the mic, I said (and so did you) the audio is coming from the mic input, which it is in your videos and recordings and your description of the problem - this is the mic input, on the sound card. It's the audio device.)

This latest test further demonstrates what we already know - this is not happening as a result of an application, or as a result of the driver. It happens independently of the driver (you said it is the same with MS or Realtek drivers) and it happens when applications have no access to the input device because the device is disabled. The output of that device is somehow effecting the input in a way that should be impossible, even the realtek control panel does not provide any facility to distort the audio and copy the output to an input. It's almost certainly a hardware/firmware issue with the card, triggered by the messages the driver sends to the card when the output is used. The mystery about it is why it only happens when VM opens the output, not when other apps open the output, and only when VM opens the output while windows has some unrelated device as it's default output. It's bizarre. This is why I got you to test VM settings for that output, that matched window' default settings, in case the trigger was the specific settings (eg 192kHz) that your realtek driver was set to use only in VM. Later, I wanted to test the other way, by having another application open the device as VM does... We haven't got that far yet.

I'm not blaming the user. I'm not blaming anything yet, and nor should you or anyone else, because you haven't tested anything well enough to have enough information for any of us to come to a certain conclusion. It's only sensible at first, to think that this might be a VM problem, since it happens only when you start VM... and yet, all of your testing so far, shows that it is not VM or the cables doing the routing (and distorting) of the audio. This is clear to see by your tests muting the mic input in VM, for example. Once this was clear, you decided that it must be the cable, continuing to act in virtual cable mode and not in virtual IO mode, when VM starts.... but the audio is coming from the wrong place for that, so it;s very clear that it isn't that. So, we don't know exactly what this is, largely because it's doing something that should be impossible. But, we know what it isn't. If we continue to find out other things that it isn't, eventually, only one possibility will be left. This is called a 'process of elimination'. But in your mind, you have eliminated all other things except VM, when in reality, you have eliminated those factors and know it must be something else.

I'm trying to help you, and you are fighting it as hard as possible. Maybe let go of your completely understandable initial impression that this is a VM issue, work with me (or at least follow a logical path), and find out what's really wrong. It's entirely unreasonable of you to say I'm not trying to figure this out. I've spent more time than I probably should, trying to get you to see what you're posting.

The 'tape test' is still outstanding, and there are more to come based on the results of all those other tests. But at this point, you've spent FAR more time trying to figure out what's wrong, than it would take to simply format the drive, install everything using known-good defaults which exclude any kind of software issue. You're wasting your time. I've put enough time into trying to get you to figuring it out, now it's time for you to do that.

newbieTrying34
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Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby newbieTrying34 » Thu May 28, 2020 12:32 am

xcasxcursex wrote:The 'tape test' is still outstanding

Already did all the tests you have mentioned on page 3 of the thread.

Anyway, this is not a bug just any VM user is gonna help "fix" so to speak. I created this thread to bring it to the dev team's attention ONLY and hopefully have it fixed by them. I have already tried a shit tonne of things and if your next solution is "oh format your PC" then please go ahead and do it yourself. I do not have the patience or time to format my PC every time a software has a bug.

I have pointed out other threads that are having the exact same issue as well. I have repeatedly mentioned the bug is in VM/VAIO drivers since it is 100% reproducible.

I don't know if you have a programming background but code does not work like "a road with some nails on it". If you make code do X, it will do X no matter how many times you run it or how much time passes. The fact that the issue occurs when audio engine starts with VAIO as output and not otherwise proves it has to do with VM's programming.

Nirgali42
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Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby Nirgali42 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:50 pm

For what it's worth. I have this same exact issue. It does not affect digital (fiber) out. It does not affect HDMI out. Only realtek analog and usb are redirected to usb mic interface. The difference in my case is, I can not turn it off at all. It was running fine for a while then I set voicemeeter interface for output and now no matter what I do it persists. I uninstall voicemeeter and vac devices but these still appear in windows audio devices even though the software is uninstalled. Multiple restarts between the uninstalls. Problem persists. I was just using zoom with usb mic and speakers and someone complained my music was coming through the mic even though mic was muted on my mixer. I use profx12v3 mixer as usb mic and PC analog out (headphones jack) to analog in on profx mixer. Speakers connected to mixer. I tried pretty much everything that was discussed in this thread. It's just odd that in my case, I can't undo it. I'm just providing this information here because I wanted to point out this affects yet another user.

xcasxcursex
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Re: Voicemeeter does not work well with Realtek card/drivers causing system audio feedback as mic input

Postby xcasxcursex » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:21 pm

Nirgali42 wrote:yet another user.


I'm hesitant to reply after meeting a brick wall trying to educate OP, but you've explained a lot of differences between your issue and OP's, and there are also differences between OP's issue and the one he linked earlier.

Just a reminder of the industry standard practice for these things: It takes a very short time to format and reinstall windows. Unless you can fix it faster than the couple of hours a reinstall takes, you're wasting valuable time.

I mention this as step one for you, because your operating system is failing. In OP's case, he may have been able to isolate the cause of the issue with a few quick tests, so it was worth doing them. In your case, you have several issues, some of which are severe. There's no way you could fix it faster than formatting it. You can have windows reinstalled and your audio tested within 30 minutes. It's not laziness, it's efficiency ;) At work, my staff do it because they're paid by the hour and time-wasting is bad business. At home, we all do it because we want our stuff to work ASAP. Either way you cut it, it's the smart move.


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